Okay … so I’ve admitted to being a Marvaholic
. There seem to be quite a few joining in on the nightly meetings. Good to see we’re all seeking help. Lord knows we need it.
Marv came barreling into my life not too very long ago and has shaken my emotions ever since. His writing definitely pushes the limits and forces us to rethink everything. His latest release, Owen Fiddler
, is making a round of blogs for the next two weeks. You won’t want to miss it. In fact, I will be sharing my latest run in with Owen right here on Kat Logic Saturday!
Until then, I want to share a bit of a discussion I had with the Marvster himself. In his book Owen Fiddler, there were a few excerpts that really got me upset. Offended I might add. Come to find out, I am not alone in my thinking. Now, I’m one for pushing the envelope and going against the grain – but even this shook me to my core. Take a look at the excerpts I’m speaking of, check out our discussion about it, then let me know what YOU think about it. All comments and opinions welcomed!
1)”After some good time the laughter subsided, and Frenda indeed planted a big one on Kris’ shining cheek. He smacked her back a good one right on her mouth. With tongue.”
2) “Every thought, memory and experience she had ever had collapsed into one implosion of experimental “now”. Ecstasy, rapture and love beyond anything measurable by human sensual, sexual, or emotional capacity blasted her apart. Replacing her sense of being was One Unified Omnipresent Pure Love. The eyes of Frenda and Kris melted together into one that could see itself as itself; and at the same time not itself, but none other than the WORD. They became and made pure love with such intensity that the stars shown brighter on the dark side of the earth.”
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Katrina: Welcome back once again, Marv. I couldn’t wait to get you in here for this discussion. I’ve read Owen Fiddler front to back. Now I just want to discuss some things about it. You know what I was thinking? I realized we’ve both been Christians about the same amount of time.
Katrina: We come from similar backgrounds of addictions.
Katrina: And we have an agreed love for the Lord.
Katrina: Just different ways of looking at our faith or our view of Christ.
Marv: I’m following you.
Katrina: So, while we have different perspectives of Christ, I do not believe that is a bad thing.
Marv: No, it’s healthy. Even in the Apostle Paul’s time there were different kinds of Christians.
Katrina: I don’t agree with some of your views. When I was reading Owen however, I was with you the entire way, up until …
Marv: Up until the kiss?
Katrina: No, even before then. One thing that really bothered me was when you referred to “Lou” and Kris as twin brothers. I had to stop and ask myself, “does he really believe that or is he being funny? Is he just being Marv?”
Marv: Diabolic opposite twins. Yin and yang. Polarities. Dualities. The world we live in.
Katrina: Right. So you didn’t mean it in the literal sense?
Marv: No not literal. Philosophical.
Katrina: Ok…I feel better about that. I am a literal thinker and it struck me really in a bad way.
Marv: Oh, I see. Maybe it will others also. And that is okay with me.
Katrina: I try to view it from a non-Christian’s perspective and wonder how they will take it. I think as Christians, whether we want to believe it, whether we like it or not, people are watching us. They watch our walk…our views. Even how we handle each storm.
Marv: It is therefore incumbent upon us to act accordingly.
Katrina: Now …yes the kiss really REALLY bothered me. Offended me even. Now, we’ve discussed our view of Christ … let me give you a bit of background without going too far. I was sexually abused for many years by my adopted father. Abandoned by my birth father.
Marv: Keep going. This sucks already, very sorry to hear that, but keep going.
Katrina: So I view Christ as my Heavenly Father…we are His children and He calls us His sons and daughters.
Marv: I understand totally. That’s a helpful image to hold in your case, and a common one that is helpful to many. And it’s biblical. So I’m not at all opposed to it.
Katrina: So the very thought of him kissing Frenda “with tongue” very much offended me in the fact that you would portray him in such a light. It felt disrespectful.
Marv: Katrina. Kris and Frenda make love on all levels. Making love is disrespectful? Pure love? Not talking humping, here, talking pure love.
Katrina: I know you have your reasoning, but from a non-Christian or a new Christian’s point of view, how do you defend that small portion of your book?
Marv: I am not defending anything. Look, Kat – they didn’t have sexual intercourse, and not because that would have been bad or naughty, but because there was no need! Maybe you should go back and re-read the second excerpt you just posted. Here – let me remind you and our readers today-
Ecstasy, rapture and love beyond anything measurable by human sensual, sexual, or emotional capacity
Who needs to screw when you can have THAT kind of experience?
Their love making was PURE love. ONE love. Where are you going with this? Why are you so stuck? It was a simple kiss, for god’s sake, in the aftermath of a Oneness Pure Love Encounter.
Katrina: I was extremely offended by it. Just a personal opinion.
Marv: Offended by the pure love making? You’ve gotta be kidding?!
Katrina: Well because again I am a literal thinker. It just doesn’t make sense. At least not to me. As a young child my thought process and identity was wrapped up and evolved around “love” which was in no way pure. So I used to have a very distorted image of love … I must admit. And to hear of a “Father” and daughter making love (even pure love) really bothers me. No matter how you word it.
Marv: Well then I don’t know how I can help you. I’m without a clue how to write about love for you then. To me that was as pure as God’s love gets. And Kris was not written up in Owen Fiddler as a “Father.” The “One” is the Father in Owen Fiddler. Still the same Christianity holy trinity of course, everything is One, but Frenda hasn’t even met The One (The Father) yet. That will happen in a sequel I am planning to write. Kris in this book is a savior and a lover. He loves you and me and everyone and he was so happy to be with Frenda, who was such a wonderful example of how a spiritual being could do so well in the human experience, that he just got all giddy and excited and kissed her. After having this awesome total oneness pure love making session in the highest realms of heaven, afterwards in a jocular mood while dancing a jig and making Frenda laugh, he just materialized enough to touch her physically, to relate to her on THAT level, with a kiss. Good lord you are making such a big deal out of this. Lighten up. At least he didn’t lower the experience to the realms of having a smoke after sex, for god’s sake.
Katrina: What I’m saying is, even as a Christian, a new Christian or a non-Christian, just talking about God like that in that manner was very hard for me. I could not relate to what you meant by it. I did understand you didn’t mean the actual act of sex. I got that so I was able to remove that portion from my mind, but I just couldn’t connect with what you were trying to say as an author… as a Christian. I really struggled with that. And then you went right into him kissing “with tongue.” So it confused me more. Is it physical or is it not? You lost me.
Marv: Again. Katrina. They are both spirit beings in that part of the book. They are able to relate and touch on any level. ANY level. And remember, Frenda is sitting beside him on the couch completely naked and unashamed…no shame…original sin gone. Heaven.
Katrina: Okay, I get that … but to portray Christ … the very one that gave his life for his children – the very man that was tortured and beaten and crucified – to portray him in such a haphazard manner (pardon the term for lack of a better word)…seemed very disrespectful.
I give up. You are beyond hope. That’s why I don’t preach to the choi
r. My ministry is not to the religious. I write novels that relate to the masses with Christian “themed” messages. The pure unconditional love of Christ comes shining through for those who have eyes to read. But if you are prone to getting hung up on precious held dogmas or deeply embedded organized church perpetuated ideologies, my writing will tend to stir your ire. Fo sho.
Katrina: No. You can’t give up. I won’t let you. You have to help me understand this. To be able to explain this to the secular world and nonbelievers that come to our site.
Marvin: (sigh) Fine. I’m easy. Shoot.
Katrina: I shared your book with my non-Christian husband to get his view. He was not offended, of course. But he holds no understanding of Christ whatsoever. He does not believe Jesus is the son of God or that He died on the cross for us. So he has no personal relationship with a Heavenly Father.
Marv: Well I am not surprised. None of the non-Christians that have read Owen Fiddler have been offended. I think there lays the rub. The “personal” relationship. What form that takes in our minds. God is formless. Beyond shape and form. But WE have to deal with FORM. So we create these “forms” in our minds, pigeon-hole the ultimate into a finite image and then cling onto that image as if heaven forbid it were to be blurred or questioned in any way we might lose our very souls. Ridiculous.
Katrina: My husband understood the point behind the story. Believing there is hope for anyone. That anyone can change.
Marv: Awesome! That means I am helping.
Katrina: You are helping…most assuredly more so than some of the rest of us. In a way more than most of us Christian authors out there that write these beautiful stories of love and forgiveness … yada yada yada. I agree with your approach.
Marv: You agree with my approach? You agree with my approach? What? Good lord. Women. After all this, she says she agrees with my approach. Right. Okay. Well, yes about the “Christian book” writers – and they do it well, so no need for the ‘old silly’ to add to that genre.
Katrina: Some of my books (Hopeless Tap Water) really cross the line in depicting the Christians in my stories…one is an alcoholic and a drug addict – and she’s a Christian.
Marv: Cool! Someone has to shout out God’s love to the secular world. Go girlfriend, proud of ya!
Katrina: Though I agree with your approach, I think a lot of us feel you crossed a line with the kiss and the ‘making love’ scene. I know I do. I suppose it’s a matter of perspective.
Marv: Well that’s tough. Deal with it. If you can’t read the pure love in what I wrote then you are beyond my capabilities to relate to. Hey – not every writer can relate to every reader. And that is like totally okay. I’m down with that. Tell ya what; go read some nice Sunday School lesson books if that’s what keeps you in your cozy comfort zone. One little kiss.
I don’t mind stepping out of my comfort zone a bit but there are just some lines that even as an author, I won’t cross. I’m glad there are authors that will, like yourself. We need that. We need authors that will push us harder to think deeper and I’m glad that you have that uncanny ability. With that being said, I’d like to open the comments for anyone to share their opinion. No matter what your view, we’d like to hear it and welcome the debate. Marv has written a rather interesting post today on Free Spirit called …you ready for this… Jesus Farts
. Head on over and take a look.
Also…don’t forget to meet back here tomorrow to hear about my encounter with Owen Fiddler himself.